It is currently April 26th, 2018, 4:18 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 30th, 2012, 7:50 am 
Offline

Joined: October 16th, 2010, 3:01 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
In my old age I've definitely become a regular flex kinda guy! The last two driver heads I've experimented with (Adams F11 and TigerShark PowerPod II) have a very high and long hozel. I have noticed that when I put a shaft in one that was trimmed to achieve my preferred length in another head, I have to butt trim even more to achieve that same length. So, because of this design I'm ending up with a finished club at my preferred length but the shaft is actually shorter.
By shortening the shaft am I affecting the flex significantly? If I want to keep the club regular flex, do I need to buy an A flex and trim?
This makes it tough to switch shafts from head to head darn it!!!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 30th, 2012, 8:04 am 
Offline
GolfBizTalk Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: October 17th, 2009, 8:50 pm
Posts: 2118
Location: northern Ohio
a lot of variables there-
to blanket it- how much are you having to trim?
some shafts-butt trimming will only change cpm by very few
some shafts-tip trimming will only change cpms a few
> the above 2 can also got the opposite way-it can stiffen them significantly (as mentioned below-minimum trimming will barely effect them)

If it is around a 1/2-1/4" -it should be minimal and hardly noticed

also as you mentioned-going from a 'higher hosel' to say a lower hosel designed clubhead- that may change feel also

insert a shaft fully in a lower hosel head and that shaft may feel/play stiffer
higher hosel head-it may play/feel softer

only way I would back up a full flex on a shaft is if it is bore thru -then it is justified

** disclaimer** head weight-type of shaft-manufacturer -can make the above variables also but- probably minimal**

_________________
Neil
pgw@phoenixgolfworld.com
http://www.phoenixgolfworld.com
Acropolis Golf
ANMKARA.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 30th, 2012, 10:48 am 
Offline

Joined: October 16th, 2010, 3:01 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Thanks Neil!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 31st, 2012, 7:30 am 
Offline
GolfBizTalk Moderator

Joined: October 13th, 2009, 12:28 pm
Posts: 5371
Location: New England
pgw wrote:
a lot of variables there-
to blanket it- how much are you having to trim?
some shafts-butt trimming will only change cpm by very few
some shafts-tip trimming will only change cpms a few
> the above 2 can also got the opposite way-it can stiffen them significantly (as mentioned below-minimum trimming will barely effect them)

If it is around a 1/2-1/4" -it should be minimal and hardly noticed

also as you mentioned-going from a 'higher hosel' to say a lower hosel designed clubhead- that may change feel also

insert a shaft fully in a lower hosel head and that shaft may feel/play stiffer
higher hosel head-it may play/feel softer

only way I would back up a full flex on a shaft is if it is bore thru -then it is justified

** disclaimer** head weight-type of shaft-manufacturer -can make the above variables also but- probably minimal**


Sounds like you just might have put a couple LD shafts together! :lol:


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 31st, 2012, 9:19 am 
Offline

Joined: November 5th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Posts: 461
The heads you are talking about have what is called a 'standard bore'. This has become the common term for a 'blind bore'; I seldom read any discussion about shaft trimming that does not include the phrase 'standard bore'. Several times, that discussion is wrong, esp. when talking Taylormade, Adams, or a few others.

All shaft makers have their tip trimming guides--whether they should be followed is a matter of taste and experience. According to their recommendations, it would seem that shafts inserted into 'standard' bore hosels, untipped, will play softer. I've yet to read where a shaft should not be tipped at least 1/2" for this bore. Again, it is a matter of taste for the user. I will seldom tip a shaft of any brand, unless it feels 'soft' in another head(with a blind bore). I have found these 'standard' bore heads to be of a (usually)heavier weight than other heads.


STANDARD BORE= SHAFT TIP DOES NOT GO INTO HEAD
BLIND BORE= SHAFT TIP GOES INTO HEAD(this includes 'deep' bores)
THROUGH BORE= SHAFT TIP GOES THROUGH BOTTOM OF HEAD



Dillon


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 31st, 2012, 12:45 pm 
Offline
GolfBizTalk Moderator

Joined: October 13th, 2009, 12:28 pm
Posts: 5371
Location: New England
From Nike:

"Standard Bore
Usually in metal heads, the depth of the hosel is between 1 1/4 - 2 inches deep. This is the depth the shaft fits into the hosel.

Thru Bore
This is when the hosel hole goes all the way through the sole of the club head. Callaway's are renowned for this.

Blind Bore
Wooden heads and some composite heads have a hosel bores that extend to within 1/4 - 1/2 inch of the sole plate, but do not go completely through. This hosel bore depth is usually around 4 inches.


It should be noted that the amount of tipping for the same shaft and flex will be different for each of these different types of bores."


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 31st, 2012, 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 5th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Posts: 461
From Leaderboard Golf:

There are three common depths:

Standard Bore: The shaft penetrates the hosel no more than one inch.


Through Bore: The shaft penetrates the hosel and continues all the way through the sole such that the tip is exposed if you were to hold the club upside down.

Blind Bore: The shaft penetrates the hosel and continues all the way to the sole plate, but is not exposed. (you know that is incorrect!!)


Hireko golf will have different defs which might include M1 and M2 hosels.....whatever that may be!!( I might ask them what is the La Jolla 400 hosel called.....when the bottom is 2" from the sole)

Other companies will also have their defs.


As you can see Doc, there are many schools of thought as to what constitutes which type of bore. Trust me when I say my description was the way everyone was taught/used to think....and I adhere to that personally. I think as one tries different styles of heads with the different hosel designs, they will become familiar with which definitions are correct. Again, the tipping of any shaft is a personal choice, but all shaft mfgrs. have their "suggestions" which are based on hosel bores.....which one do YOU have? :?



Dillon


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 31st, 2012, 1:55 pm 
Offline
GolfBizTalk Moderator

Joined: October 13th, 2009, 12:28 pm
Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Dillon wrote:
From Leaderboard Golf:

There are three common depths:

Standard Bore: The shaft penetrates the hosel no more than one inch.


Through Bore: The shaft penetrates the hosel and continues all the way through the sole such that the tip is exposed if you were to hold the club upside down.

Blind Bore: The shaft penetrates the hosel and continues all the way to the sole plate, but is not exposed. (you know that is incorrect!!)


Hireko golf will have different defs which might include M1 and M2 hosels.....whatever that may be!!( I might ask them what is the La Jolla 400 hosel called.....when the bottom is 2" from the sole)

Other companies will also have their defs.


As you can see Doc, there are many schools of thought as to what constitutes which type of bore. Trust me when I say my description was the way everyone was taught/used to think....and I adhere to that personally. I think as one tries different styles of heads with the different hosel designs, they will become familiar with which definitions are correct. Again, the tipping of any shaft is a personal choice, but all shaft mfgrs. have their "suggestions" which are based on hosel bores.....which one do YOU have? :?



Dillon


Dillon - this is a great topic with lots of different opinions that I find makes it very interesting to talk about.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 31st, 2012, 2:47 pm 
Offline
GolfBizTalk Moderator

Joined: October 13th, 2009, 12:28 pm
Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Here's a link to True Temper with some drawings

http://www.truetemper.com/golf/pages.ph ... 3&CDpath=6


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: March 31st, 2012, 3:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 5th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Posts: 461
"this is a great topic with lots of different opinions that I find makes it very interesting to talk about."


And a lot of readers will think us nuts for even being interested in the subject, lol.

Here is yet another version:

Bore-Through: Method of shaft insertion where shaft is inserted all of the way through the club head so that the tip of the shaft is visible on the sole of the club.

Blind Bore or Deep Bore: A bore configuration of metal woods in which the shaft penetrates the bore to a standard depth in excess of 1 1/2"(to the sole but not through).

Standard Bore: Bore type in a wood in which there is 1 1/2" from the ground line to the point at which the shaft bottoms out in the hosel. May also be called "metal wood bore."


And still, he does not say what my LJ400 head hosel is(2" from sole shafting depth)!!



But they need to know when/how they should rely on the shaft mfgrs. tipping recommendations. The more info anyone brings to the 'table', the better they can decide. Head mfgrs. will not say anything about tipping of shafts, esp. for getting the proper results when using deepbore heads. 1 co. says it makes no diff, to which I disagree, esp. if using a BangOMatic with the 3+" deepbore design.

Dillon


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: April 1st, 2012, 8:40 am 
Offline

Joined: October 16th, 2010, 3:01 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Well, I need some advice and I'm just getting more confused as the thread grows. Here's what's going on.
I normally build my drivers to 49 3/4" vertical measure. To do this with a 46" shaft I would normally have to extend the shaft about an inch (Geek, Integra,XFactor). With this PowerPod II I will have to butt trim about 1/4" to get this finished length. So the shaft will actually be approx 1 1/4" shorter than I normally use even though the finished length will be the same.
Will this 1 1/4" shorter shaft sneak my R flex Pro Lauch Red up into the S flex range, or will the difference be so negligable as not to matter. My pockets aren't deep enough in this bad economy that I can afford to make a mistake.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: April 1st, 2012, 9:24 am 
Offline

Joined: November 5th, 2009, 8:43 pm
Posts: 461
carry&roll wrote:
Well, I need some advice and I'm just getting more confused as the thread grows. Here's what's going on.
I normally build my drivers to 49 3/4" vertical measure. To do this with a 46" shaft I would normally have to extend the shaft about an inch (Geek, Integra,XFactor). With this PowerPod II I will have to butt trim about 1/4" to get this finished length. So the shaft will actually be approx 1 1/4" shorter than I normally use even though the finished length will be the same.
Will this 1 1/4" shorter shaft sneak my R flex Pro Lauch Red up into the S flex range, or will the difference be so negligable as not to matter. My pockets aren't deep enough in this bad economy that I can afford to make a mistake.



"...a finished club at my preferred length but the shaft is actually shorter.
By shortening the shaft am I affecting the flex significantly? If I want to keep the club regular flex"...


Any time you trim a shaft, whether it be from the tip or the butt, it gets stiffer. Most shafts will get more stiff when trimming the tip instead of the butt......but not all; depends on the shaft profile. When in doubt, use the shaft mfgr. recommended trimming guide. The heads you mention, IMO, are the "standard" bore heads and (most)shafts usually are to be tipped .5-1.0"; then buttcut to final length. If you are using a shaft that is known to be 'tip stiff', I would butt trim only in this case.

For me, in a case like this, I use the weight of the head as a guideline--if it is under 200gr. I leave the tip alone; if it is over 200gr. I would tip the shaft maybe 1/2".

I've got a couple heads that are like these, and if you want to reuse the shafts in a different head(blind bore), they are going to be about an inch or so too short.(depending on the club length you normally play)

Hope this helps 'unconfuse' a bit!!

Dillon


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: April 1st, 2012, 9:37 am 
Offline

Joined: October 16th, 2010, 3:01 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Dillon wrote:
carry&roll wrote:
Well, I need some advice and I'm just getting more confused as the thread grows. Here's what's going on.
I normally build my drivers to 49 3/4" vertical measure. To do this with a 46" shaft I would normally have to extend the shaft about an inch (Geek, Integra,XFactor). With this PowerPod II I will have to butt trim about 1/4" to get this finished length. So the shaft will actually be approx 1 1/4" shorter than I normally use even though the finished length will be the same.
Will this 1 1/4" shorter shaft sneak my R flex Pro Lauch Red up into the S flex range, or will the difference be so negligable as not to matter. My pockets aren't deep enough in this bad economy that I can afford to make a mistake.



"...a finished club at my preferred length but the shaft is actually shorter.
By shortening the shaft am I affecting the flex significantly? If I want to keep the club regular flex"...


Any time you trim a shaft, whether it be from the tip or the butt, it gets stiffer. Most shafts will get more stiff when trimming the tip instead of the butt......but not all; depends on the shaft profile. When in doubt, use the shaft mfgr. recommended trimming guide. The heads you mention, IMO, are the "standard" bore heads and (most)shafts usually are to be tipped .5-1.0"; then buttcut to final length. If you are using a shaft that is known to be 'tip stiff', I would butt trim only in this case.

For me, in a case like this, I use the weight of the head as a guideline--if it is under 200gr. I leave the tip alone; if it is over 200gr. I would tip the shaft maybe 1/2".

I've got a couple heads that are like these, and if you want to reuse the shafts in a different head(blind bore), they are going to be about an inch or so too short.(depending on the club length you normally play)

Hope this helps 'unconfuse' a bit!!

Dillon


Thanks Dillon! Tiger Shark says the head is 198g so I'll leave the tip alone and just butt trim. I'll let you know how it works out.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: April 5th, 2012, 7:18 am 
Offline

Joined: October 16th, 2010, 3:01 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Well, I installed the 46" R Flex Grafalloy Pro launch Red into the PowerPod, butt trimmed a little and took it out to the range. It felt too stiff for me. I couldn't load it. So, I pulled it, glued in an extension, and glued it into my XFactor Super Pro head. This is a heavy head, but I'm not sure how heavy. I built the club to the same finished length that I built the PowerPod. Now it feels great. I can load it and release it and am hitting my usual distances.
I was surprised that a little bit of shaft would affect the flex this much, and I'm even more surprised an old duffer like me was this sensetive to it!!!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: long driver hozels and shaft trimming
PostPosted: April 5th, 2012, 7:25 am 
Offline
GolfBizTalk Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: October 17th, 2009, 8:50 pm
Posts: 2118
Location: northern Ohio
heavy head-more flexible shaft ****or at least feeling***
lighter head -less flexible shaft ****or at least feeling***

higher hosel-less flexible shaft ****or at least feeling***
deeper hosel-more flexible shaft ****or at least feeling***

there is a balance that is needed between head and shaft-
It happens all the time when people switch to different style /weight heads
their favorite shaft will not play/feel the same in a different head-sometimes need to go weaker and sometimes stiffer

need balance in a club-that is what most refer to as 'feel'

_________________
Neil
pgw@phoenixgolfworld.com
http://www.phoenixgolfworld.com
Acropolis Golf
ANMKARA.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO