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Who wins?
Obama 47%  47%  [ 7 ]
Romney 53%  53%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 15
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 Post subject: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 7:16 am 
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Who wins?


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 9:51 am 
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Joined: October 16th, 2009, 9:51 am
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Location: Northern Indiana
Honestly, you have to be fucking idiot to truly want to vote for either candidate, however, maybe even a bigger fucking idiot to vote for the schmuck that made things worse. Government doesn't create jobs, I cringe every time I hear that phrase no matter who says it. Government has the ability to make an environment for job creation and Obama's policies do exactly the opposite of that. I'll choose the guy that knows how to run a business and has a clue what policies encourage growth as opposed to the guy who hasn't run so much as a lemonade stand.


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 11:14 am 
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Romney doesn't know how to run a business. He knows how to buy them, gut them, and then sell off the pieces.

Federal records, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, reveal that Romney's initial rescue attempt at Bain & Company was actually a disaster – leaving the firm so financially strapped that it had "no value as a going concern." Even worse, the federal bailout ultimately engineered by Romney screwed the FDIC – the bank insurance system backed by taxpayers – out of at least $10 million. And in an added insult, Romney rewarded top executives at Bain with hefty bonuses at the very moment that he was demanding his handout from the feds.


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 11:28 am 
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Joined: March 20th, 2011, 9:03 am
Posts: 106
ND Fan wrote:
Honestly, you have to be fucking idiot to truly want to vote for either candidate, however, maybe even a bigger fucking idiot to vote for the schmuck that made things worse. Government doesn't create jobs, I cringe every time I hear that phrase no matter who says it. Government has the ability to make an environment for job creation and Obama's policies do exactly the opposite of that. I'll choose the guy that knows how to run a business and has a clue what policies encourage growth as opposed to the guy who hasn't run so much as a lemonade stand.



If Government doesn't create jobs, why does Romney say he'll create 12m of them as President?

:o

Worse?

Such short memories. Four years ago, things were a lot worse.

Actually, matters have not proceeded more quickly because of uncertainty and partisanship - statements such as the one you made, with no facts, are the reason things are not better. The grand bargain was not made, and a tax deal with real reform is not on the bargaining table. Business wants certainty. The government, led by the legislative branch - hasn't produced certainty. Wasn't this GOP Congress voted in to produce jobs in 2010? Where are the jobs? Where is the legislation? Instead, they're talking about social issues when they should be talking economy.

But for all the naysayers, a recession such as this, caused by private market overindulging itself, takes a longer recovery period. And while Obama's administration has made errors in leadership and not working enough with business leaders, and while they realized their mistakes late, they have not interfered with the markets. The economy is recovering - albeit slowly.

But enough of partisan fingerprinting. I mean, if Christie and Obama can hug each other, there is hope. After an election, stop campaigning. And govern. It seems as if the 2008 election never ended.


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 1:34 pm 
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Joined: October 16th, 2009, 9:51 am
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Location: Northern Indiana
I big part of this collapse was the housing bubble and lenders grasping at straws the government handed them. Clinton to be precise and then bolstered by a democrat lead house for the first few years of Bush. The government regulated banks to provide loans to those who couldn't afford them with the promise that they'll essentially buy them back. This was thought to bolster the economy having more people, specifically lower income people owning homes that would not have been approved in the 80's. This government regulation backfired because the government in their ultimate wisdom underestimated the greed of big banks. Had you still been required to have 15 or 20 percent down to buy a home none of this would have happened in the manner it did. We may have seen a slow down as a result of the new exotic trading of derivatives and such, markets and banks may have slowed the economy but the housing crisis is the root of it and it was caused by over regulating and opening a whole new flow of cash from Fannie and Freddie to buy up junk home loans. It was a mistake, I just wished someone would admit to it. The predatory lending shit drives me nuts so don't get me started, no one held a gun to anyone's head and said buy a house with a interest only or balloon mortgage.

As for Romney and Bain, if you have a mutual fund you should thank Bain Capitol, companies like them literally clear the clutter. Failing businesses are either liquidated or revived and turned profitable. Like it or not that's the nature of capitalism, the strong survive and the week die. It wasn't Bain's fault for businesses failing, they just bought sinking ships. If not Bain then someone else.


Things are not better than four years ago,
four years ago today unemployment was 6.6% today 7.8%
National debt was 10.4 trillion, today 16.3 trillion
four years ago we heard....
deficit spending cut in half, well it tripled instead.
close gitmo... still open
immigration reform... not so much

a list of broken promises... keeping in mind democrats ruled it all for two year and could do anything they wanted. What did they do? Obama care... another revenue liability.

check it yourself http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/

Promise Broken rulings on the The Obameter
Increase the capital gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers

Increase capital gains and dividends taxes from 15 to 20 percent for those making more than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000 (single)

>> More
Expand the child and dependent care credit

Expand and make refundable the child and dependent care credit.

>> More
Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

Create a $10 billion fund to help homeowners refinance or sell their homes. "The Fund will not help speculators, people who bought vacation homes or people who falsely represented their incomes."

>> More
Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form

Will direct the Internal Revenue Service to "give taxpayers the option of a pre-filled tax form to verify, sign and return to the IRS or online. This will eliminate the need for Americans to hire expensive tax preparers and to gather information that the federal government already has on file."

>> More
Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers

Create a refundable tax credit equal to 10 percent of mortgage interest for nonitemizers, up to a maximum credit of $800.

>> More
Require automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans

Automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans for workers whose employers offer retirement plans.

>> More
Require automatic enrollment in IRA plans

Require employers who do not offer retirement plans to offer their workers access to automatic IRAs and contribute via payroll deduction.

>> More
Create a retirement savings tax credit for low incomes

A tax credit for retirement savings up to $500 (couples) or $250 (singles). Phases out when incomes exceed $65,000 (couples) or $32,500 (single). Indexed for inflation.

>> More
End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000

"Will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This will eliminate taxes for 7 million seniors -- saving them an average of $1,400 a year-- and will also mean that 27 million seniors will not need to file an income tax return at all."

>> More
End no-bid contracts above $25,000

"Will ensure that federal contracts over $25,000 are competitively bid."

>> More
Create a $60 billion bank to fund roads and bridges

"Will address the infrastructure challenge by creating a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank to expand and enhance, not supplant, existing federal transportation investments. This independent entity will be directed to invest in our nation's most challenging transportation infrastructure needs. The Bank will receive an infusion of federal money, $60 billion over 10 years, to provide financing to transportation infrastructure projects across the nation. These projects will create up to two million new direct and indirect jobs and stimulate approximately $35 billion per year in new economic activity."

>> More
Repeal the Bush tax cuts for higher incomes

Repeal the Bush tax cuts for those making more than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000 (single)

>> More
Phase out exemptions and deductions for higher earners

Restore the phaseouts of personal exemptions and itemized deductions for those making more than $250,000 (couples) or $200,000 (single), with threshholds indexed for inflation.

>> More
Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize

"Obama is a cosponsor and strong advocate of the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA), a bipartisan effort to make the unionization process more transparent and increase penalties on companies that violate employee rights. He will sign EFCA into law as president."

>> More
Lift the payroll tax cap on earnings above $250,000

"Barack Obama believes that the first place to look to strengthen Social Security is the payroll tax system. Obama believes that one strong option is increasing the maximum amount of earnings covered by Social Security by lifting the payroll tax cap on only earnings above $250,000."

>> More
Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses

"Protect the jobs and benefits of workers and retirees when corporations file for bankruptcy by telling companies that they cannot issue bonuses for executives during bankruptcy while their workers watch their pensions disappear."

>> More
Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court

"Increase the amount of unpaid wages and benefits workers can claim in bankruptcy court against their employer."

>> More
Allow imported prescription drugs

"Allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S."

>> More
Prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs

"Prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs from consumers."

>> More
Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices

"Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices."


this is page one of five pages. I know I am not changing anyone's mind but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks we're heading in the right direction. The biggest problem is the whole system is fucked and has essentially become a big game for the politicians. Partisanship is killing our country and both sides are to blame equally. The problem is so big it may not be entirely repairable. Spending has to stop and their aren't enough so called rich people to tax to fix it at any rate, even at a 90% tax rate on anyone making more than 250k we don't cover the current spending. And who's gonna work hard enough to make that money if taxed at 90%... no one.


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 6:37 pm 
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Joined: October 19th, 2009, 2:53 pm
Posts: 1369
Location: Western MA
As a survivor of the Romney governorship of Massachusetts....there is no way any that this guy should run a government. Presidents, much like quarterbacks, get too much credit for things that go right and too much blame for things that go wrong. For anything to work the President and legislature need to work together, and lets be honest, for the most part, the Republicans in the legislature were not willing to work with Obama.

I would argue that (at least from what I can see), things are getting better than they were 4 years ago. Having been inspecting manufacturing facilities since 1999, one of the questions I always ask, is "how is business". For about the last year an half, the majority of responses I have gotten is that business has been getting better.

Basically, here is where I stand: Supply side economics does not work, has not worked and will never work....it makes no sense. I cannot support any candidate who believes this will work. I am pro choice and pro gay marriage and will not vote for a candidate who is not.

Now for a little comedy:


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 7:01 pm 
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Joined: March 29th, 2012, 6:20 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
I voted on this poll, but am adding no comments or opinions other than I think it's going to be very close.


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 10:11 pm 
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Joined: October 19th, 2009, 8:52 am
Posts: 4054
Location: Central Valley, CA
UncleSteve wrote:
I voted on this poll, but am adding no comments or opinions other than I think it's going to be very close.


I 2nd that. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: October 31st, 2012, 11:04 pm 
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Joined: April 11th, 2011, 10:50 pm
Posts: 146
Location: Louisiana
From the Communist Manisfeto:

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

What's scary is that there is a large part of our population that doesn't see anything wrong with a government taking our freedoms away.

By the way, if you believe that the federal government is spending your money wisely, better than you can, how much extra do you give on top of your normal federal tax liability.


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: November 2nd, 2012, 9:55 am 
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Joined: October 13th, 2009, 12:28 pm
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Do you think the way Obama reacted to Hurricane Sandy with make a decisive difference for people who were undecided?


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: November 2nd, 2012, 8:15 pm 
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Joined: October 24th, 2009, 11:16 pm
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yaffldaffl wrote:
Basically, here is where I stand: Supply side economics does not work, has not worked and will never work....it makes no sense.

amen-Bush 41 had it right when he called it voodoo economics

GM is alive and OBL is dead.

It looks like Richard Murdock's rape comment will cost him a trip to the Senate. Talk about an unforced error. The election was his and he blew it. There is a Senate election commercial on all the time here. Last weekend there were three in a row. It's ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: November 3rd, 2012, 7:51 am 
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Location: Northern Indiana
Mourdock is an idiot, We can agree on that Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: November 4th, 2012, 7:00 pm 
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ND Fan wrote:
Mourdock is an idiot, We can agree on that Mike

and go Irish!


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: November 6th, 2012, 7:40 am 
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Our poll has Romney winning by a very small margin, it should be an interesting night.

Those of you in Ohio .......seeing any political ads this week on Television? lol


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 Post subject: Re: Presidential election
PostPosted: November 6th, 2012, 1:39 pm 
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DrGreen wrote:
Our poll has Romney winning by a very small margin, it should be an interesting night.

Those of you in Ohio .......seeing any political ads this week on Television? lol

Golfers are notoriously "conservative." I think that would be skewed. Most polls have Obummer about 52/48.
No "winner" to be had in either. :bill:


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