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 Post subject: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 12th, 2013, 11:32 am 
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I admit that I'm not, but I'll be shocked if they don't find him guilty of something. Any other verdict is essentially giving vigilantes permission to initiate confrontations with unarmed people and shoot them if they fight back.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 12th, 2013, 2:36 pm 
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RickB wrote:
I admit that I'm not, but I'll be shocked if they don't find him guilty of something. Any other verdict is essentially giving vigilantes permission to initiate confrontations with unarmed people and shoot them if they fight back.

The burden of reasonable doubt will not allow a guilty verdict. The charges will not allow a guilty verdict. This is a grandstand.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 12th, 2013, 2:40 pm 
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I agree, I am not a gun control guy, I honestly believe the more people that had conceal carry the less we would here about places getting shot up or at least the damage would be minimized but this case brings into consideration of neighborhood watch people. I think this shows that untrained people with guns that purposely put themselves into a situation will almost always turn our poorly. I wouldn't follow someone with a gun strapped to my side, I am not trained for it, what if they are carrying? No thanks I like my life less complicated. I think Zimmerman will be convicted of manslaughter. His life is essentially over any way regardless. No matter what the outcome, even if he was completely exonerated he'll never work for anyone and if he started a business who would patronize it? What bothers me most about the entire thing... How many young people have been shot and killed since this went down, why aren't they on the front pages? Mostly because our President injected himself into the case and because it's perceived as white on black crime. Which isn't true, but truth doesn't really matter. There's no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman messed up but I think both people involved hold some accountability in the incident. It was a tragic loss of life for no apparent reason other than some guy thought something was going on and wasn't trained to handle it. 911 operator should have told him to not follow him. The whole thing stinks but ultimately Zimmerman is responsible for the kids death, what price he pays is up to the jury.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 12th, 2013, 3:32 pm 
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Joined: October 12th, 2009, 9:48 am
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mr_divots wrote:
RickB wrote:
I admit that I'm not, but I'll be shocked if they don't find him guilty of something. Any other verdict is essentially giving vigilantes permission to initiate confrontations with unarmed people and shoot them if they fight back.

The burden of reasonable doubt will not allow a guilty verdict. The charges will not allow a guilty verdict. This is a grandstand.


Reasonable doubt?

Zimmerman pretty much admitted that he wanted to take the victim down and that he thought he was a guilty scumbag in his call to the police well before the confrontation. He was told NOT to initiate contact. He then attacked the unarmed victim, started getting his ass kicked and shot him. I'm not sure where you get reasonable doubt in any of that. Even in states with "stand your ground" or very liberal castle laws you're not allowed to chase people down and shoot them for no reason other than being black and fighting back when you assault them.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 12th, 2013, 4:19 pm 
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I don't follow these national trials at all, but unless I'm missing something it seems pretty cut and dried that Zimmerman is guilty of some level of murder or manslaughter. He picked a fight with an unarmed man and then shot him. How do you claim self-defense when you start the fight and you have the gun while the other guy is just fighting back?


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 12th, 2013, 5:33 pm 
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RickB wrote:
mr_divots wrote:
RickB wrote:
I admit that I'm not, but I'll be shocked if they don't find him guilty of something. Any other verdict is essentially giving vigilantes permission to initiate confrontations with unarmed people and shoot them if they fight back.

The burden of reasonable doubt will not allow a guilty verdict. The charges will not allow a guilty verdict. This is a grandstand.


Reasonable doubt?

Zimmerman pretty much admitted that he wanted to take the victim down and that he thought he was a guilty scumbag in his call to the police well before the confrontation. He was told NOT to initiate contact. He then attacked the unarmed victim, started getting his ass kicked and shot him. I'm not sure where you get reasonable doubt in any of that. Even in states with "stand your ground" or very liberal castle laws you're not allowed to chase people down and shoot them for no reason other than being black and fighting back when you assault them.

For every point that one side putts up, there is another to be levied from the other side.
TM stating to his friend on the phone before the altercation "I'm gonna need me a good lawyer" was pretty damning, for instance. The fact GZ was observing TM looking into cars seems contrary to the image of a good little boy the media wants.

It's known that FL prosecutors and other prosecutors in states with "S.Y.G." laws want them gone. Too hard to convict. (No mention of public safety outcomes.) Seeing all the gun control BS of late, it's pretty easy to see this is front and center in the media for a reason. It's not a racial issue at all. Black kids get shot 10 times a day. No one generally cares. No media coverage.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 14th, 2013, 5:13 pm 
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Joined: October 13th, 2009, 12:28 pm
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I was surprised with how fast the jury came back with a verdict .......anyone else feel the same way?


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 15th, 2013, 5:50 am 
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Joined: October 19th, 2009, 2:53 pm
Posts: 1369
Location: Western MA
mr_divots wrote:
RickB wrote:
mr_divots wrote:
RickB wrote:
I admit that I'm not, but I'll be shocked if they don't find him guilty of something. Any other verdict is essentially giving vigilantes permission to initiate confrontations with unarmed people and shoot them if they fight back.

The burden of reasonable doubt will not allow a guilty verdict. The charges will not allow a guilty verdict. This is a grandstand.


Reasonable doubt?

Zimmerman pretty much admitted that he wanted to take the victim down and that he thought he was a guilty scumbag in his call to the police well before the confrontation. He was told NOT to initiate contact. He then attacked the unarmed victim, started getting his ass kicked and shot him. I'm not sure where you get reasonable doubt in any of that. Even in states with "stand your ground" or very liberal castle laws you're not allowed to chase people down and shoot them for no reason other than being black and fighting back when you assault them.

For every point that one side putts up, there is another to be levied from the other side.
TM stating to his friend on the phone before the altercation "I'm gonna need me a good lawyer" was pretty damning, for instance. The fact GZ was observing TM looking into cars seems contrary to the image of a good little boy the media wants.

It's known that FL prosecutors and other prosecutors in states with "S.Y.G." laws want them gone. Too hard to convict. (No mention of public safety outcomes.) Seeing all the gun control BS of late, it's pretty easy to see this is front and center in the media for a reason. It's not a racial issue at all. Black kids get shot 10 times a day. No one generally cares. No media coverage.


What is damning is that Zimmerman was clearly instructed by the police not to do anything. Had he listened to the police, none of this would of happened. Instead he went with a gun and confronted a 17 year kid. Zimmerman created and escalated a situation.

I would not say Zimmerman is guilty of murder; however, manslaughter, hell yeah. However this is basically the same pool of potential jurors that let Casey Anthony walk, so I am not surprised.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 15th, 2013, 7:31 am 
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Joined: October 24th, 2009, 11:16 pm
Posts: 1683
ND Fan wrote:
I agree, I am not a gun control guy, I honestly believe the more people that had conceal carry the less we would here about places getting shot up or at least the damage would be minimized but this case brings into consideration of neighborhood watch people. I think this shows that untrained people with guns that purposely put themselves into a situation will almost always turn our poorly. I wouldn't follow someone with a gun strapped to my side, I am not trained for it, what if they are carrying? No thanks I like my life less complicated. I think Zimmerman will be convicted of manslaughter. His life is essentially over any way regardless. No matter what the outcome, even if he was completely exonerated he'll never work for anyone and if he started a business who would patronize it? There's no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman messed up but I think both people involved hold some accountability in the incident. It was a tragic loss of life for no apparent reason other than some guy thought something was going on and wasn't trained to handle it. 911 operator should have told him to not follow him. The whole thing stinks but ultimately Zimmerman is responsible for the kids death, what price he pays is up to the jury.


This pretty well sums it up for me. I went back and read and reread every transcript I could find. When the fight broke out I think Zimmerman thought he was fighting a criminal and Martin thought he was fighting a creepy. Zimmerman got to the gun first and acted in self defense. BUT it all goes back to Zimmerman's actions. Had he remained in his vehicle and waited for the police two things would have happened. One, and most importantly, Martin would be alive. Two, and still important, Zimmerman would have a life.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 15th, 2013, 9:57 am 
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Joined: March 24th, 2011, 8:35 pm
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Quote:
Had he remained in his vehicle and waited for the police two things would have happened.


The law does not prevent him from following him regardless of what the dispatcher told him. Plus, the dispatcher didn't tell him to stop following him until he had already begun to do so and was terminating his pursuit when he was confronted by Martin.

Of course, that is all Zimmerman's side of the story and could be a complete fabrication, but there is no evidence to refute it beyond a reasonable doubt. Whether we agree with it or not, he cannot be convicted on suspicion and conjecture.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 16th, 2013, 8:41 pm 
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Posts: 566
I see why he didn't get convicted of murder but I fail to see how he didn't commit manslaughter but I guess the stupid stand your ground law covers that. How about for being a stupid racist wannabe cop he spends a couple nights in jails amongst the general population?


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 16th, 2013, 10:10 pm 
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Joined: October 24th, 2009, 11:16 pm
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Sickspin wrote:
I see why he didn't get convicted of murder but I fail to see how he didn't commit manslaughter but I guess the stupid stand your ground law covers that. How about for being a stupid racist wannabe cop he spends a couple nights in jails amongst the general population?


Z didn't use syg as the defense has said they wanted a jury trial. I don't think Z is a racist. He never said M was black until the operator asked if he was. The juror that is on Anderson Cooper said she believes Zimmerman's "heart was in the right place" the night he shot Martin, but that he didn't use "good judgment" in confronting the Florida teen.

In Florida- Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence (Involuntary Manslaughter): Engaging in “Culpably Negligent” conduct that resulted in the death of another person. Further-culpable negligence - (law) recklessly acting without reasonable caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death.

So how can this juror who voted innocent from the first, all the while admitting Z did not use good judgement, vote not guilty of manslaughter?

I think the 3 jurists who voted guilty at the start caved to the others so they could be done with it and go home.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone following the Zimmerman trial?
PostPosted: July 17th, 2013, 11:37 am 
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If we're to have an real talk about the charges, we'll have to read the FL manslaughter and murder 2 statutes. As I said from the onset, they over-charged. Two of the jurors had him at manslaughter 2, supposedly.

OK, Eric Holder now attacking SYG laws. Did you see the part at the NAACP meeting where he said your first right when an intruder enters your home is to retreat out of your home?

Said it ALL along, and its clear as day: this is another attack on guns and the SYG laws, not racial issues. They know they can whip people into a frenzy over racial issues though. So they make it into a race issue, seemingly.
Don't lay down any rights. Government is far from trustworthy anymore. Far more worried about Government and their over-reach than any such attack happening to me in my lifetime.
They know people won't give up their rights, so they are trying to create such a maze of laws that you are unable to act in any meaningful way, even if it means protecting yourself. America is under attack if you hadn't noticed. The foxes are in the hen house.

And just turn off the TV right now. Media= hate speech. :roll:


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